Using two changers in same pool

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Using two changers in same pool

Per olof Ljungmark
Hello,

As stated in the subject, how can one get two (identical) changers work
together seamlessly in the same pool so when one has its tapes filled up
the next will continue without intervention?

Thanks,

//per

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Re: Using two changers in same pool

Kern Sibbald
Hello,

There is no way to get two autochangers to work on the same Volumes.  
You can try but it is almost sure to fail, because it was not designed
that way.  You can potentially use the two autochangers with two
separate pools, and get Bacula to use both of them.  This (multiple
drives with separate pools) was implemented for stand-alone drives, but
it was never tested, because it was not needed after implementing
autochangers.

If someone were *really* interested he/she would need to test it and
correct any problems in the code.  I am *very* busy implementing other
new features that are very important so I would not be the person to do it.

Most people in your place would simply swap out his drive and put in a
newer one with more capacity (unless you are already using LTO-7).  
Otherwise most other people would swap out the two autochangers and get
a single one with more cartridges.

Best regards,

Kern


On 07/03/2017 12:05 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As stated in the subject, how can one get two (identical) changers
> work together seamlessly in the same pool so when one has its tapes
> filled up the next will continue without intervention?
>
> Thanks,
>
> //per
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> Bacula-users mailing list
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Re: Using two changers in same pool

Per olof Ljungmark
On 2017-07-03 17:01, Kern Sibbald wrote:

> Hello,
>
> There is no way to get two autochangers to work on the same Volumes. You
> can try but it is almost sure to fail, because it was not designed that
> way.  You can potentially use the two autochangers with two separate
> pools, and get Bacula to use both of them.  This (multiple drives with
> separate pools) was implemented for stand-alone drives, but it was never
> tested, because it was not needed after implementing autochangers.
>
> If someone were *really* interested he/she would need to test it and
> correct any problems in the code.  I am *very* busy implementing other
> new features that are very important so I would not be the person to do it.
>
> Most people in your place would simply swap out his drive and put in a
> newer one with more capacity (unless you are already using LTO-7).
> Otherwise most other people would swap out the two autochangers and get
> a single one with more cartridges.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kern

Hi,

If that is the case, no, I will not try and will mess with the code,
others do that better.

But still, even if two changers cannot work with the same volume, they
can still work with the same pool which is good enough for me.

And, changers are mechanical devices that sometimes break, having two
means you can loose one and still do your job.

Cheers,

//per

> On 07/03/2017 12:05 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> As stated in the subject, how can one get two (identical) changers
>> work together seamlessly in the same pool so when one has its tapes
>> filled up the next will continue without intervention?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> //per
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bacula-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>
>
>
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>
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Per olof Ljungmark
CEO
--
M: +46 707 50 20 46
Intersonic AB
Stockholm, Sweden
SE556539368201

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Re: Using two changers in same pool

Josh Fisher
In reply to this post by Per olof Ljungmark

On 7/3/2017 6:46 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:

> On 2017-07-03 17:01, Kern Sibbald wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> There is no way to get two autochangers to work on the same Volumes.
>> You can try but it is almost sure to fail, because it was not
>> designed that way.  You can potentially use the two autochangers with
>> two separate pools, and get Bacula to use both of them.  This
>> (multiple drives with separate pools) was implemented for stand-alone
>> drives, but it was never tested, because it was not needed after
>> implementing autochangers.
>>
>> If someone were *really* interested he/she would need to test it and
>> correct any problems in the code.  I am *very* busy implementing
>> other new features that are very important so I would not be the
>> person to do it.
>>
>> Most people in your place would simply swap out his drive and put in
>> a newer one with more capacity (unless you are already using LTO-7).
>> Otherwise most other people would swap out the two autochangers and
>> get a single one with more cartridges.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Kern
>
> Hi,
>
> If that is the case, no, I will not try and will mess with the code,
> others do that better.
>
> But still, even if two changers cannot work with the same volume, they
> can still work with the same pool which is good enough for me.

No. It is possible to assign different media types to the two
autochangers so that the volumes could technically be in the same pool,
but this will fail in practice. If a client's backups are spread across
both changers, a restore will fail because the restore job is assigned a
read drive on only one of the changers.

>
> And, changers are mechanical devices that sometimes break, having two
> means you can loose one and still do your job.

Automated failover with autochangers is complex, since there are
multiple drives, multiple tapes, etc. Automated failure detection is
tricky. Manual failover should be possible by using only one of the
autochangers at a time by having two different SD configs and starting
baucla-sd with one of the two..

>
> Cheers,
>
> //per
>
>> On 07/03/2017 12:05 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> As stated in the subject, how can one get two (identical) changers
>>> work together seamlessly in the same pool so when one has its tapes
>>> filled up the next will continue without intervention?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> //per
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bacula-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>
> Per olof Ljungmark
> CEO


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Re: Using two changers in same pool

Kern Sibbald
In reply to this post by Per olof Ljungmark
Please carefully consider the advice from Josh Fisher.  It is very good
advice.

Kern


On 07/04/2017 12:46 AM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:

> On 2017-07-03 17:01, Kern Sibbald wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> There is no way to get two autochangers to work on the same Volumes.
>> You can try but it is almost sure to fail, because it was not
>> designed that way.  You can potentially use the two autochangers with
>> two separate pools, and get Bacula to use both of them.  This
>> (multiple drives with separate pools) was implemented for stand-alone
>> drives, but it was never tested, because it was not needed after
>> implementing autochangers.
>>
>> If someone were *really* interested he/she would need to test it and
>> correct any problems in the code.  I am *very* busy implementing
>> other new features that are very important so I would not be the
>> person to do it.
>>
>> Most people in your place would simply swap out his drive and put in
>> a newer one with more capacity (unless you are already using LTO-7).
>> Otherwise most other people would swap out the two autochangers and
>> get a single one with more cartridges.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Kern
>
> Hi,
>
> If that is the case, no, I will not try and will mess with the code,
> others do that better.
>
> But still, even if two changers cannot work with the same volume, they
> can still work with the same pool which is good enough for me.
>
> And, changers are mechanical devices that sometimes break, having two
> means you can loose one and still do your job.
>
> Cheers,
>
> //per
>
>> On 07/03/2017 12:05 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> As stated in the subject, how can one get two (identical) changers
>>> work together seamlessly in the same pool so when one has its tapes
>>> filled up the next will continue without intervention?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> //per
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bacula-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>
> Per olof Ljungmark
> CEO


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Re: Using two changers in same pool

Per olof Ljungmark
On 2017-07-05 09:27, Kern Sibbald wrote:
> Please carefully consider the advice from Josh Fisher.  It is very good
> advice.
>
> Kern

Yes, agree.


> On 07/04/2017 12:46 AM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
>> On 2017-07-03 17:01, Kern Sibbald wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> There is no way to get two autochangers to work on the same Volumes.
>>> You can try but it is almost sure to fail, because it was not
>>> designed that way.  You can potentially use the two autochangers with
>>> two separate pools, and get Bacula to use both of them.  This
>>> (multiple drives with separate pools) was implemented for stand-alone
>>> drives, but it was never tested, because it was not needed after
>>> implementing autochangers.
>>>
>>> If someone were *really* interested he/she would need to test it and
>>> correct any problems in the code.  I am *very* busy implementing
>>> other new features that are very important so I would not be the
>>> person to do it.
>>>
>>> Most people in your place would simply swap out his drive and put in
>>> a newer one with more capacity (unless you are already using LTO-7).
>>> Otherwise most other people would swap out the two autochangers and
>>> get a single one with more cartridges.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Kern
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If that is the case, no, I will not try and will mess with the code,
>> others do that better.
>>
>> But still, even if two changers cannot work with the same volume, they
>> can still work with the same pool which is good enough for me.
>>
>> And, changers are mechanical devices that sometimes break, having two
>> means you can loose one and still do your job.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> //per
>>
>>> On 07/03/2017 12:05 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> As stated in the subject, how can one get two (identical) changers
>>>> work together seamlessly in the same pool so when one has its tapes
>>>> filled up the next will continue without intervention?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> //per
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bacula-users mailing list
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>
>> Per olof Ljungmark
>> CEO
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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