Win2012 integrated deduplication

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Win2012 integrated deduplication

Norbert Gomes
Hi,

We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.

The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is clearly
not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with 20%
compression)

When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0

It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according to
this 2013 post

http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailing-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-122330/

Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the only
solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?


Regards

Norbert




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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Norbert Gomes
Hello,

I'm back with this post.

To get reliabled backups, we have disabled the deduplication in the
Windows Servers.


Is there another solution to correctly backup with Bacula Windows
deduplicated servers ?


Regards,

Norbert


Le 30/11/2016 à 11:44, Norbert Gomes a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.
>
> The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is clearly
> not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with 20%
> compression)
>
> When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0
>
> It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according to
> this 2013 post
>
> http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailing-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-122330/
>
> Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the only
> solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Norbert
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bacula-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>


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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Raymond Burns Jr.

Hmmmm... Why did you disable deduplication? I am backing up several windows machines with it on. 


On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:20 AM Norbert Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I'm back with this post.

To get reliabled backups, we have disabled the deduplication in the
Windows Servers.


Is there another solution to correctly backup with Bacula Windows
deduplicated servers ?


Regards,

Norbert


Le 30/11/2016 à 11:44, Norbert Gomes a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.
>
> The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is clearly
> not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with 20%
> compression)
>
> When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0
>
> It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according to
> this 2013 post
>
> http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailing-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-122330/
>
> Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the only
> solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Norbert
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bacula-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>


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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Josip Deanovic
On Wednesday 2016-12-14 11:32:40 Raymond Burns Jr. wrote:
> Hmmmm... Why did you disable deduplication? I am backing up several
> windows machines with it on.

Check the quoted part of the first message.


> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:20 AM Norbert Gomes
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm back with this post.
> >
> > To get reliabled backups, we have disabled the deduplication in the
> > Windows Servers.
> >
> >
> > Is there another solution to correctly backup with Bacula Windows
> > deduplicated servers ?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Norbert
> >
> > Le 30/11/2016 à 11:44, Norbert Gomes a écrit :
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.
> > >
> > > The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is
> > > clearly
> > > not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with
> > > 20% compression)
> > >
> > > When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0
> > >
> > > It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according
> > > to
> > > this 2013 post
> >
> > http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailin
> > g-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-12
> > 2330/>
> > > Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the
> > > only
> > > solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Norbert
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------->
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bacula-users mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bacula-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users

--
Josip Deanovic

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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Kern Sibbald
The Bacula version 5.2 Windows File daemon did not understand anything
about the new Windows features (compression, deduplication, Unix style
links, ...).

However the File daemon has evolved significantly, and now Bacula
*should* be aware of most all the new Windows stuff.  Since I do not run
Windows and especially Window dedup volumes, I cannot guarantee that it
works, but in principal it should.  However, you need a Bacula version
7.4.4 Director, SD and a 7.4.4 Windows FD.

Best regards,
Kern

On 12/14/2016 12:38 PM, Josip Deanovic wrote:

> On Wednesday 2016-12-14 11:32:40 Raymond Burns Jr. wrote:
>> Hmmmm... Why did you disable deduplication? I am backing up several
>> windows machines with it on.
> Check the quoted part of the first message.
>
>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:20 AM Norbert Gomes
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm back with this post.
>>>
>>> To get reliabled backups, we have disabled the deduplication in the
>>> Windows Servers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there another solution to correctly backup with Bacula Windows
>>> deduplicated servers ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>> Le 30/11/2016 à 11:44, Norbert Gomes a écrit :
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is
>>>> clearly
>>>> not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with
>>>> 20% compression)
>>>>
>>>> When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0
>>>>
>>>> It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according
>>>> to
>>>> this 2013 post
>>> http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailin
>>> g-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-12
>>> 2330/>
>>>> Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the
>>>> only
>>>> solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Norbert
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------->
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
>>> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users



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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Norbert Gomes
OK thank you for these precisions, we'll give it a try in next weeks (or
months ?).

Or if someone in this list has already tried ? :-)

And for the other, has a workaround, disable Windows deduplication or
you will get some surprises at restore !


Regards

Norbert


Norbert GOMES

Le 14/12/2016 à 13:22, Kern Sibbald a écrit :

> The Bacula version 5.2 Windows File daemon did not understand anything
> about the new Windows features (compression, deduplication, Unix style
> links, ...).
>
> However the File daemon has evolved significantly, and now Bacula
> *should* be aware of most all the new Windows stuff.  Since I do not run
> Windows and especially Window dedup volumes, I cannot guarantee that it
> works, but in principal it should.  However, you need a Bacula version
> 7.4.4 Director, SD and a 7.4.4 Windows FD.
>
> Best regards,
> Kern
>
> On 12/14/2016 12:38 PM, Josip Deanovic wrote:
>> On Wednesday 2016-12-14 11:32:40 Raymond Burns Jr. wrote:
>>> Hmmmm... Why did you disable deduplication? I am backing up several
>>> windows machines with it on.
>> Check the quoted part of the first message.
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:20 AM Norbert Gomes
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I'm back with this post.
>>>>
>>>> To get reliabled backups, we have disabled the deduplication in the
>>>> Windows Servers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there another solution to correctly backup with Bacula Windows
>>>> deduplicated servers ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Norbert
>>>>
>>>> Le 30/11/2016 à 11:44, Norbert Gomes a écrit :
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.
>>>>>
>>>>> The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is
>>>>> clearly
>>>>> not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with
>>>>> 20% compression)
>>>>>
>>>>> When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according
>>>>> to
>>>>> this 2013 post
>>>> http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailin
>>>> g-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-12
>>>> 2330/>
>>>>> Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the
>>>>> only
>>>>> solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Norbert
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------->
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
>>>> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bacula-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Bacula-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users


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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Raymond Burns Jr.

I have 7.4 Director and Windows Binaries.

No issues thus far.

Windows Server 2012 Deduplication and Previous Versions enabled

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:32 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] Win2012 integrated deduplication

 

OK thank you for these precisions, we'll give it a try in next weeks (or

months ?).

 

Or if someone in this list has already tried ? :-)

 

And for the other, has a workaround, disable Windows deduplication or

you will get some surprises at restore !

 

 

Regards

 

Norbert

 

 

Norbert GOMES

 

Le 14/12/2016 à 13:22, Kern Sibbald a écrit :

> The Bacula version 5.2 Windows File daemon did not understand anything

> about the new Windows features (compression, deduplication, Unix style

> links, ...).

> 

> However the File daemon has evolved significantly, and now Bacula

> *should* be aware of most all the new Windows stuff.  Since I do not run

> Windows and especially Window dedup volumes, I cannot guarantee that it

> works, but in principal it should.  However, you need a Bacula version

> 7.4.4 Director, SD and a 7.4.4 Windows FD.

> 

> Best regards,

> Kern

> 

> On 12/14/2016 12:38 PM, Josip Deanovic wrote:

>> On Wednesday 2016-12-14 11:32:40 Raymond Burns Jr. wrote:

>>> Hmmmm... Why did you disable deduplication? I am backing up several

>>> windows machines with it on.

>> Check the quoted part of the first message.

>> 

>> 

>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 5:20 AM Norbert Gomes

>>> <[hidden email]>

>>> wrote:

>>>> Hello,

>>>> 

>>>> I'm back with this post.

>>>> 

>>>> To get reliabled backups, we have disabled the deduplication in the

>>>> Windows Servers.

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> Is there another solution to correctly backup with Bacula Windows

>>>> deduplicated servers ?

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>> Regards,

>>>> 

>>>> Norbert

>>>> 

>>>> Le 30/11/2016 à 11:44, Norbert Gomes a écrit :

>>>>> Hi,

>>>>> 

>>>>> We realize today that certain of our Windows backups are incomplete.

>>>>> 

>>>>> The backup log returns OK, but the size of the backuped data is

>>>>> clearly

>>>>> not the size of the real data (7 GB backuped instead of 130 GB, with

>>>>> 20% compression)

>>>>> 

>>>>> When we restore a full backup, a lot of files have a size of 0

>>>>> 

>>>>> It seems to be due to the Windows build-in deduplication, according

>>>>> to

>>>>> this 2013 post

>>>> http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailin

>>>> g-lists-3/bacula-25/windows-server-2012-with-built-in-deduplication-12

>>>> 2330/>

>>>>> Is there any workaround (newer version of Bacula, patch ?), or the

>>>>> only

>>>>> solution is to disable the Windows deduplication ?

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> Regards

>>>>> 

>>>>> Norbert

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> -------->

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> Bacula-users mailing list

>>>>> [hidden email]

>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users

>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> -------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's

>>>> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> Bacula-users mailing list

>>>> [hidden email]

>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users

> 

> 

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most

> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot

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> [hidden email]

> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users

 

 

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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Josip Deanovic
On Wednesday 2016-12-14 07:39:36 [hidden email] wrote:
> I have 7.4 Director and Windows Binaries.
> No issues thus far.
> Windows Server 2012 Deduplication and Previous Versions enabled

Have you checked the size of the backup job and compared it with
the compression ratio reported in the logs?

Have you tried the restore?
Are there any zero size files?

There shouldn't be any but since you are using the feature it
would be nice to get a confirmation.

--
Josip Deanovic

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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Raymond Burns Jr.

I’ve done several restores without issues, but those files may not be deduped.

 

I don’t show any file sizes that are 0KB.

 

I am running a new full, however, my filesets have some file type exclusions for database type files.

I will let you know the overall size of the backup once it is complete.

 

Currently, my drive of just user based files, no operating system files or anything, is sitting at 574GB with 33% Deduplication Rate

 

If you know of some other tools I can use that will give me more information about Deduplication, I will gladly let you know

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:53 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] Win2012 integrated deduplication

 

On Wednesday 2016-12-14 07:39:36 [hidden email] wrote:

> I have 7.4 Director and Windows Binaries.

> No issues thus far.

> Windows Server 2012 Deduplication and Previous Versions enabled

 

Have you checked the size of the backup job and compared it with

the compression ratio reported in the logs?

 

Have you tried the restore?

Are there any zero size files?

 

There shouldn't be any but since you are using the feature it

would be nice to get a confirmation.

 

--

Josip Deanovic

 

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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Raymond Burns Jr.
So it turns out that Josip just saved me from a very serious conversation with my employers. 
I deoptimized my file share and my full backup is now 1.2TB.
No more deduplication for me. 
I am running 7.4 Bacula and client binaries.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 11:13 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’ve done several restores without issues, but those files may not be deduped.

 

I don’t show any file sizes that are 0KB.

 

I am running a new full, however, my filesets have some file type exclusions for database type files.

I will let you know the overall size of the backup once it is complete.

 

Currently, my drive of just user based files, no operating system files or anything, is sitting at 574GB with 33% Deduplication Rate

 

If you know of some other tools I can use that will give me more information about Deduplication, I will gladly let you know

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:53 AM


To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] Win2012 integrated deduplication

 

On Wednesday 2016-12-14 07:39:36 [hidden email] wrote:

> I have 7.4 Director and Windows Binaries.

> No issues thus far.

> Windows Server 2012 Deduplication and Previous Versions enabled

 

Have you checked the size of the backup job and compared it with

the compression ratio reported in the logs?

 

Have you tried the restore?

Are there any zero size files?

 

There shouldn't be any but since you are using the feature it

would be nice to get a confirmation.

 

--

Josip Deanovic

 

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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Norbert Gomes

OK, so you got the same symptoms.

I also noticed that the "estimate" command is insidious : it returns the real size of the data present on a Win2012 deduped server.

You are in 7.4, but which minor version ? 7.4.3, 7.4.4 or another ?

Kern Sibbald said the only the 7.4.4 "should" handle dedup correctly


Norbert

Norbert GOMES
Le 19/12/2016 à 11:45, Raymond Burns Jr. a écrit :
So it turns out that Josip just saved me from a very serious conversation with my employers. 
I deoptimized my file share and my full backup is now 1.2TB.
No more deduplication for me. 
I am running 7.4 Bacula and client binaries.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 11:13 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’ve done several restores without issues, but those files may not be deduped.

 

I don’t show any file sizes that are 0KB.

 

I am running a new full, however, my filesets have some file type exclusions for database type files.

I will let you know the overall size of the backup once it is complete.

 

Currently, my drive of just user based files, no operating system files or anything, is sitting at 574GB with 33% Deduplication Rate

 

If you know of some other tools I can use that will give me more information about Deduplication, I will gladly let you know

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:53 AM


To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] Win2012 integrated deduplication

 

On Wednesday 2016-12-14 07:39:36 [hidden email] wrote:

> I have 7.4 Director and Windows Binaries.

> No issues thus far.

> Windows Server 2012 Deduplication and Previous Versions enabled

 

Have you checked the size of the backup job and compared it with

the compression ratio reported in the logs?

 

Have you tried the restore?

Are there any zero size files?

 

There shouldn't be any but since you are using the feature it

would be nice to get a confirmation.

 

--

Josip Deanovic

 

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Re: Win2012 integrated deduplication

Raymond Burns Jr.
I am on 7.4.4
I never used estimate command, so I cannot attest to that.
I have already unoptmized mydrive to remove Dedup. I have no plans to reenable that to test the estimate command. Wish I had archived estimates to use as a test.
Sorry.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 8:09 AM Norbert Gomes <[hidden email]> wrote:

OK, so you got the same symptoms.

I also noticed that the "estimate" command is insidious : it returns the real size of the data present on a Win2012 deduped server.

You are in 7.4, but which minor version ? 7.4.3, 7.4.4 or another ?

Kern Sibbald said the only the 7.4.4 "should" handle dedup correctly


Norbert


Norbert GOMES
Le 19/12/2016 à 11:45, Raymond Burns Jr. a écrit :
So it turns out that Josip just saved me from a very serious conversation with my employers. 
I deoptimized my file share and my full backup is now 1.2TB.
No more deduplication for me. 
I am running 7.4 Bacula and client binaries.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, 11:13 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’ve done several restores without issues, but those files may not be deduped.

 

I don’t show any file sizes that are 0KB.

 

I am running a new full, however, my filesets have some file type exclusions for database type files.

I will let you know the overall size of the backup once it is complete.

 

Currently, my drive of just user based files, no operating system files or anything, is sitting at 574GB with 33% Deduplication Rate

 

If you know of some other tools I can use that will give me more information about Deduplication, I will gladly let you know

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:53 AM


To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] Win2012 integrated deduplication

 

On Wednesday 2016-12-14 07:39:36 [hidden email] wrote:

> I have 7.4 Director and Windows Binaries.

> No issues thus far.

> Windows Server 2012 Deduplication and Previous Versions enabled

 

Have you checked the size of the backup job and compared it with

the compression ratio reported in the logs?

 

Have you tried the restore?

Are there any zero size files?

 

There shouldn't be any but since you are using the feature it

would be nice to get a confirmation.

 

--

Josip Deanovic

 

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